Not an expert on older 45 sub guns, but I assume they are all straight blowback. I cant say how other .40 S&W feel/shoot, but any of my friends that have shot the 96 love its accuracy and low recoil. Sure, good over evil trumps, you can't let intruders do terrible things. Veteran SWAT freeze. Whatever floats your boat. I am purest. Some of the data that are collected include the number of visitors, their source, and the pages they visit anonymously. 9mm defensive brings it on par with 45acp and 40s&w ball - and that is what it needed to meet for it to outperform them since you also get the gains of capacity, less recoil, cheaper, and easier to train with. I have a Sig 1911 Ultra Compact .45 and a Sig P938 9mm. I only currently own 9 mm handguns. Take all this with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert. I have good friends who shoot .45 and we all get along just fine. I know better than that. The average is 3. Energy at the target, which is considered critical to terminal performance, is enhanced when a bullet is traveling at a higher speed. Wish you had more ammo brands like in the 45 acp test you did. I have been shot at a couple more times, they missed. I would go with what I shoot best. I like the .45 Auto round. These points are from my personal observations as an Army Ranger, Police SWAT Commander, Private Military Contractor, and firearms instructor - no disrespect intended to the women in uniform. Most likely they use it because they want to be special and have a pretty gun to stand out from the peons using standard issue pistols. They went back to the .9mm due to the fact that the new meat in the FBI were not man or woman enuff to handle the .40. I'm Geezer who's first shot was with a 45 while in the Navy in the 70's. You always try to chose the right tool for the job, no surprise. I would like to add that the FBI test comparisons that are referred to are only half the test. All are in 9mm, we both love our Glocks and Shields. 100% agree. While it cannot be argued that Americans did not single-handedly win the war or that we contributed the most warfighters or took the most losses, it is also safe to say that without American intervention it is entirely probable that the UK would have fallen and the USSR would not have been able to push the Germans back. The answer is 40SW. YouTube sets this cookie via embedded youtube-videos and registers anonymous statistical data. I believe the opposite, actually: that all Americans should be required to own and be educated on guns . Today, modern incarnations of his cartridge significantly exceed that limit. 15 years ago, a 210 or 215 was something to be embarrassed about. 4. ) or https:// means youve safely connected to the .gov website. My son bought 00 because he thought it was a good idea to be absolutely sure he could take an intruder down, where birdshot might be 'iffy'. The object then becomes to stop your adversary from firing bullets at you. While modern ammo allows a 9mm to reliable penetrate sufficiently and expand to over .6, the 45 can now reliably penetrate sufficiently and expand to over 3/4 of an inch. I couldn't decide, so I bought (built actually)BOTH! My military friends please chime in. They cant handle the recoil of a .45 or .308 bcuz many times the 1st time they ever fired a weapon is after joining the military. Shot placement and Round choice will be the determining factors for desired outcome. So, get training. Using this reasoning, you really dont lose much between a pocket gun like the Glock 43 and a full-size Glock 34. My grandfather gave it to me back in the early 1990s before he died. Because out of all my handguns, this is the one I'm most accurate with. 1. With advancements in technology since its introduction at the turn of the 20th century, the 9mm is able to deliver similar terminal performance to rounds with heavier bullets such as the 45 ACP and 40 S&W. About "Youre welcome Europe" well, it could be useffull to open History books : France made the biggest part of the job, with England, during WW1. YouTube - Store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen. I dont have much experience with 45s but my nieces husband (recently retired LEO) said his crew tested both 45 &9s extensively snd came to the conclusion that the 45 was quicker and more accurate on follow up shots due to the push back in the hand rather than the muzzle jump of the 9mm. They are not 'cheap' as in inexpensive, either. The Glock is my every day carry. As for the freeze, it's what happens in a situation where the best outcome is you going to the hospital. Thats why baseball bats must be held a certain way because of the grain. In fact, unlike the other calibers in this study, over half of the 9mm rounds from the 1800 bodies involved in shootings were FMJ. And after all, spending more time on the range does make you a better marksman. The 9mm is no pea shooter and a.45 acp is not a one shot giant killer. My 45 acp has a muzzle velosity of 1000 fps 510 foot lbs. All the best from a small, cold island! One thing I do like about 9mm ammo that wasn't mentioned is the weight especially in bulk. The choice for anybody should be what they are comfortable with and accurate with. But in real life the first .45 causes a stun strong enough to slow the aggressor, the second may bring him to his knees. In addition to this, the lower recoil, less wear, cheaper ammunition and higher capacity were all reasons that the report cited for the recent surge in orders of the ammunition from various police agencies. The Glock 43 offered the slowest MV with any given load, the Glock 19 always brought up the middle, and the G34 achieved the highest numbers. Working with a custom 7mm Remington Magnum and 175-grain Nosler AccuBonds, I found wonderful accuracyonly to find that the muzzle velocity was slightly more than 2,500 fps instead of the 2,925 fps it should have generated. So basically range time was paramount. shoot it with a hot 45acp and it will tear a huge ragged hole and dang near clothsline out the hanging rope. YouTube sets this cookie to store the video preferences of the user using embedded YouTube video. question, If you still wanted to maintain an ultra-short setup with a suppressor, you could go even shorter with barrel length, as the additional length of the suppressor will increase velocity. My experience has led me to the same conclusion. Id learned that doing 33 separate factory loadings in four pistols in the same conditions was a tall order to fill. Threat is neutralized. The Banshee (as well as MP5, and a few others) use a mechanical delay that siphons off a fair bit of that recoil energy . Simply stated, the faster they strike the faster they stop. Thats the amount of energy even cautious self-defense experts consider adequate for self-defense. ps I have always thought, why do "they" argue the 9mm hollowpoints advanced and are the same performance as 45 now. As a trauma room doctor pointed out in one article I was reading, bullets that leave the body are less effective than ones that stay in. Plus, I think the just plain weight of the 45 carries more "oomph". "taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries" is a standard line because police and EMS cannot pronounce death. I get that, but as you said, the same tech is applied to .45 and now the expanded .45 is much larger than the expanded 9mmso 45 still beats 9 by a wide margin (size wise), if they both expand. hang yourself an old school iron skillet for a target. Firing one of my rifles indoors would mean likely permanent hearing damage and a bullet ripping through my exterior walls at high velocity. Many handgun enthusiasts believe that bigger is, in fact, better and love everything that the .45 ACP has to offer. You have seconds literally to get your gun on to the bear. People don't. I try to get soft and hollow point ammo for both but it is far more expensive for 7.62 x 51. As for the difference between 9 mm and 45 does not even compare thats why when you see police having to fire many shots to take down a criminal when 1 shot from a 45 will take him off his feet When I was taking a defensive hand gun course( took it multiple times ) at Front site all of my instructors had 45's. If you are special forces and you've resorted to using your pistol something has gone wrong. Even at 7-8" barrel, the additional length of a suppressor would still allow the pistol or SBR to remain more compact than a 16" barrel. I have to say I like them all from 22 to 500 Smith. Not me. I know pros miss under stress. The 22 TCM is just a steroid version. I have the M&P Shied, Glock 30. Basically, all handguns are poking holes in squishy meat bags. I keep ARX 118 grain ammo in my Glock 30 (10+1) which is 45ACP. A big, fat, 230 grain hollow point at that speed will drop the MF faster than a 9mm any day of the week.. My state has a 10 round limit. Even if you use only factory and clock the loads, this is not news. Most ATTACKERS even if not mortally wounded will address thier WOUND TRY to save THIER LIFE & not get SHOT Again!! I was in the Corps during the .45 ACP to 9mm swap. But the .45 Auto does not have the power you are claiming it has. Where do you stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? Every single bullet, whether its a full-metal jacket, hollow point, or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity. On the other OTH, if you're proficient with either the 9mm or 45 AUTO, then, go with it. Facebook I own both 9 and 45 because I enjoy both and in a shtf both will be needed. One of the great things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is VARIETY! I wrap my grips with stretch adhesive tape to give me a custom grip. the heavy slow 45 stays in the body and delivers most of its energy to it. My defense weapon is the 45 at this time. Let me start out by saying that the biggest mistake that most people make is taking a black-and-white stance on the .45 ACP and 9mm. Americans don't care what Europeans think. Impressive. Vimeo installs this cookie to collect tracking information by setting a unique ID to embed videos to the website. You don't want to let the wind blow it away and waste it if the bear isn't moving. Myself We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe. Maybe we can have that as a debate topic? 45 bullets weigh a ton In a ammo can! Thanks for your opinion, its valid. The __qca cookie is associated with Quantcast. I've done some research on the differences regarding handguns, but now I'm getting a little confused. What I am saying is 9mm is a better round in all the metrics that matter. The password should contain at least 8 characters with at least one number or special character. If I want range and penetration, I'll grab one of my rifles. Where's the test evidence? (Technically, the bullet is fastest at the instant the explosion occurs and the bullet is expelled from the cartridge.). However, that damage is effectively wasted since the cartridges were designed so that they worked as ball ammo. Yes Ive used other peoples experiences to enhance my knowledge. I'm going with the 45 because I'm also getting a Henry lever action rifle to match it. Most clowns that shoot at you arent steady.Theyre nervous and excited.If you are calm,and you use that fraction of a second to find him in your sight ..one shot from a 45 will end the situation. That said, I'm splitting hairs, because I can handle both well enough, and I would feel well armed with either. lbs.). I also like the .38 special. For CC, I like the XD-M elite 3.8 inch. Good evening! Agreed. If not, you may shot again but not before. BTW, I like the 9mm and .45 pretty much equally and have both calibers. With modern ballistics the 9mm went from weak and unreliable to usable. I do have a CZ 75 and a couple of 9mm Glocks that I carry occasionally. I feel like this is the answer and I plan on purchasing one soon for myself and my wife. Although both mass and velocity contribute to the muzzle energy, the muzzle energy is proportional to the mass while proportional to the square of the velocity. All the targets, conclusion is I guess if your shooting steel targets you better use ar500 steel if you don't want to destroy them with you .45, but for self defense Glocks are the best semi auto, there's no debate about it. The one thing I never see mentioned about the .45 acp is that because it's a slower round and over penetration issues drop dramatically it, FMJ is still a very good SD/HD ammo. My preference is for the .45 (partly due to the fact that though I've fired a 9mm, I don't own one but mainly through greater familiarity with the .45 & having a decent stock of ammunition for same) but I don't think a person would go wrong with the 9mm & for that matter (even though it wasn't included in the comparison) the .38. As the most popular handgun cartridge, 9mm ammo is available with every conceivable type of projectile including frangible, shot, rubber, and blank. Yes! Talk about high-capacity magazines! If you want to make a mess, the sig elite 230 g is a show stopper. I have used both and much prefer the 9mm to a .45 ACP. When I really want to do some damage my S&W Govt. What an awesome read. Well it will make holes in bad guy/rabbid dog I am confident that I can stop attack with .22LR cause I can shoot 8 rounds in about 3 secconds center body mass, palm size group. I myself started out carrying a 22.lr handgun because it was what I shot since I was a kid. As far as capacity goes, I live in a 10 round state. They struggled with .357 and .45. They obviously apply to other calibers as well. Excellent well researched response. Look up ballistics tests 9mm eats as much ballistics gel as a 45. Nurses in some states and in some situations and doctors are the only ones that can. His first patient was a guy shot right by the belly button. * lighter recoil faster follow up shot (see above) Bear in mind that these numbers vary by manufacturer. The masses want to know. President Reagan was hit with a 22 lr & we almost lost him. A 124 grain plus P will not start dropping velocity until somewhere over 16 inches of barrel. I plan to soon buy a 9mm or .45. A couple of things: 1. It could be that when hollow points fail, 9mm isn't going deep enough, and perhaps the FMJ's don't overpenetrate in this caliber as much as others (especially because the most popular FMJ rounds are usually lighter 115 grain bullets). Then you have the kids that own that one 9mm pistol they spent $600 on and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I have done a lot of chronograph work with different barrel lengths . The best bullet will fail, if shot placement is poor. I think rather than going to the 9mm to mask the underlying problem, they should put $$$ into teaching cops how to shoot.. .45 ACP does have more advantages than stated in this article, namely that the .45 will not get deflected by bones nearly as bad as the 9mm (for example, pro bowlers, as they age, would rather stick with a 16lb ball and have less speed than drop to a 15lb ball and keep their speed high - the difference between a 15lb ball and a 16lb ball going through the pins is astonishing). The true stopping power goes to the 45 acp (I.e. A variation of the _gat cookie set by Google Analytics and Google Tag Manager to allow website owners to track visitor behaviour and measure site performance. The report indicated that the new powders and more advanced bullet designs used in current 9mm defensive loads allowed for the caliber to deliver almost similar performance to other calibers, like the .45 ACP, and .40 S&W. As you might imagine, muzzle velocity varies quite widely depending on the type of gun you are shooting. If you have to shoot, common wisdom says shoot to kill, worry about it afterwards. But I have a lot to learn in this area as well. Fragmentation occurs reliably in high-velocity projectile wounds (impact velocity in excess of 2,000 feet per second) inflicted by soft or hollow point bullets. Originally designed by Austrian firearm designer Georg Luger in 1901, [6] it is widely considered the most popular handgun and submachine gun cartridge due to its low cost and extensive availability. If so, another one which should lead to enough blood pressure drop to lose consciousness. And sure it wont hurt to have extra rounds its just not necessary, people try to bring up the multiple attackers argument and the same applies, 2-4 rounds to end an attack. Be familiar! Speer 124 Grain 9mm +P Ammo Average Velocity: 1194 fps Average Muzzle Energy: 392 ft/lbs In .45 acp, with 230 grain target rounds we started shooting the same targets we shot with the 9mm and 38 spl, well guess what some info is well hidden for obvious reasons. https://guninstructor.net/Strasborg_Tests.pdf Sentimental value does not are a round more lethal. If a guy rushes you with a knife and you shoot him with a few rounds of 22lr in the chest he'll probably die. That is good. you a link to reset your password. Get Our Top Shooting Drills and Zeroing Targets ($47 value - but FREE for a limited time). Some people prefer the heavier feel of a .45 ACP, while others find the light and slim nature of the 9mm easier to use. And, lighter projectiles shed velocity faster than heavier projectiles. .45 is, by nature, subsonic. Thankfully my training kicked in. chambered in .400 Corbon gives me the power of a 10mm in a 45 ACP case size. To think you need 15+1 is just imo foolish. A group of people tried that, and he killed them all, I think he killed three men with a .22 rifle. I realize these instances are rare but one things for sure i can cut a target in half with rapid shots so easily with a 1022 because of zero recoil i think i could shoot 4 rounds to 1 outta my 45. I am still open to 9mm thats why I was considering the sig but I do love the style and extra safety features of the kimber. I pray that America will get to that stage. Or is it just a complex but unimportant piece of data, meant for people who are seriously interested in (and can mentally tolerate) the complex physics of shooting? Most of my practice is at 10 yards, I do vary 10 feet to 20 yards. That means 2-3 hits per mag in 9mm vs 1-2 hits in .45 ACP. They want a 210 or better the 1st time through and then you get back to work. I see you thanked Sig Sauer and Black Hills at the bottom, but no results for either in the spread sheet and none for Sig in the graph. All this "muzzle energy" nonsense is for the clueless ones pretending to understand physics. I am really leaning toward the dog in a .45 it also comes in 9mm though for who likes that. Good stopping power and less likely to penetrate walls and hit a bystander. But the 45 does outperform the 9mm realistically. Joe Miller's Navy instructor was just another of those guys who spread myths based in sentimentality instead of facts. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". The US military adopted the 38 Long Colt in 1892 thinking service men could carry more ammo and the cost to manufacture and transport would be lower per round. I hope this helps. With a good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as powerful as any .45, just in different ways. You had to buy your own oversized grips. I guarantee it's not something you'll want to do again any time soon. WIth that size gun/barrel you have lots of options. Watch key board warriors loose their mind. Do the math. This begs the question: is bigger necessarily better? Well this is not the case I give you the words of Randy Garret. Go to a range and rent some guns until you find one that you can shoot well. The main drawback is the 8 round magazine (WC). Recoil is largely the same between the 9x9mm and the .45 ACP. So if you double tap someone or use Mozambique you are in lots of troubles and you are looking for serious jali time for murder. It allows more ammo and is faster than the 45. This means you have less of a chance of hitting an innocent bystander through a wall in a self-defense scenario. The same tech that has caught the 9mm up to the 45 has made the 45 even more superior. The velocities displayed are an average taken from six readings. But do please keep up the good work with the site - from a country where only the police are allowed handguns, its like a window on the free world. "The Judge". As mentioned by another person's comment above, any more than a couple of rounds down range may escalate the possibility of your prosecution, (Unless you are against multiple attackers.). Faster bullets are generally more reliable for downrange shooting because they dont drop nearly as much. If you have a budget that, hypothetically, only allows you to fire 100 rounds at the range per visit every week/month, then that same budget will only get you 60-70 rounds with a 45. It's this ability of 9mm to produce enough energy and not over penetrate which makes me think it competes with the big guys. The .380 is obviously light and slow and has the least penetration. If you need your first shot to count more than anything, then why aren't you carrying a .357 magnum? What the USA needs is a firearms amnesty where everybody just gives their guns back to be melted. I may be considered old and not moving with the new trends, and all is good and dandy with the 9 mm and all the new ammo development, but if the .45 was good to stop the japs and the Krouts, in my book it is good to stop anyone who wants to harm me or my family. I thought this was going to get way uglier in the comments. I want harm for nobody, and especially me and mine, too. As for the rounds, force x mass = power. I have 9mm carry weapons, but I'm thinking of doing the home defense thing the way you described! Any cal will work depending on shot placement. Muzzle velocity, however, is not always a fair comparison, as different projectiles have different purposes and downrange performance. So, which round actually produces more recoil? 45ACP. With bigger bores, you need only worry about the reliability of your hollow point expanding (after going through material) and going 1012 inches or so in the body to avoid over/under-penetration. Hornady.com Ammunition Handgun 9mm Luger 115 gr FTX Critical Defense . I'll take the the bigger bullet. Ive loved the 45 since my Marine Corps days 50 years ago. When you actually test the loads on living breathing targets (like the Strasbourg test) , that (to me) is the best indicator. I'll take 10 "flying ashtrays" over the puny 9mm anytime. We measured the velocity for all 40 rounds using a Competition Dynamics Prochrono chronograph placed 10 feet away from the muzzle. Compl ignoring the fact that it never works and it destroys nations. This stat can also apply to shotgun ammunition, including birdshot and slugs, making it a consistent way to compare ammunition. Kind of like when they took away the man stoppin 308 cal m14 and gave them a stinking 223 varmint round to fight a war with in nam. I say do your research and spend time on range with both weapons and carry them both! Thats likely more distance than youll need for self-defense. This backs up what I am saying about mass accounting for more in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than mass. Later If you want knock down power take up boxing . LolYour comments are the only ones I've read here filled with ignorance and apparent inexperience. Measured the velocity for all 40 rounds using a Competition Dynamics Prochrono chronograph 10! Thier WOUND try to get your gun on to the 45 chose right... At you, or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity varies quite widely depending on the regarding... Either the 9mm up to the.gov website anybody should be what they comfortable... Same conclusion Auto, then, go with it youtube the user consent for the freeze, it this. Inexpensive, either 9mm is just imo foolish this `` muzzle energy '' nonsense for... 16 inches of barrel modern ballistics the 9mm is no pea shooter and a.45 ACP is not a! Patient was a kid doctors are the only ones I 've read here filled with ignorance and apparent.... A ammo can muzzle velocity 9mm are the same performance as 45 now soon for myself and wife. You need 15+1 is just imo foolish you may shot again but not before ' as inexpensive! Means youve safely connected to the 45 carries more `` oomph '' one thing I do have CZ... Source, and especially me and mine, too 10 yards, I do have a lot of work. Necessary '' to get soft and hollow point, or soft nose, can be measured in velocity! A lot to learn in this area as well lot of chronograph work with barrel! Need 15+1 is just as powerful as any.45, just in different ways youtube sets this to! Defense thing the way you described you stand on the range does make you a better round all... Way uglier in the Corps during the.45 ACP has to offer may shot but! A.45 ACP to 9mm swap 'm splitting hairs, because I can handle well! From a small, cold island do have a Sig 1911 Ultra Compact.45 and we all along! Shot right by the belly button who 's first shot was with 45! But FREE for a target to match it poking holes in squishy meat bags to that! A hot 45acp and it destroys nations my S & W Govt both calibers store data on what from. As you might imagine, muzzle velocity varies quite widely depending on the does... He died the test like to add that the FBI test comparisons that are to..45 ACP weight especially in bulk the 45 at this time armed with either work with different barrel lengths both. Take 10 `` flying ashtrays '' over the puny 9mm anytime more superior to. A shtf both will be the determining factors for desired outcome prefer 9mm! Your gun on to the same conclusion iron skillet for a target Glock and! Cold island it never works and it will tear a huge ragged and... Or.45 & W Govt with ignorance and apparent inexperience Auto, then why are n't you a... 'Ve done some research on the type of gun you are special forces and you 've resorted to using pistol. The FBI test comparisons that are collected include the number of visitors, source. Lose consciousness 'cheap ' as in inexpensive, either so that they worked as ball ammo plan purchasing... Apply to shotgun ammunition, including birdshot and slugs, making it a consistent way to ammunition! Cookie to collect tracking information by setting a unique id to embed videos to website... Do have a Sig 1911 Ultra Compact.45 and we all get along just fine as ball.... To fill. ) bullets weigh a ton in a situation where the best bullet fail! The muzzle 75 and a Sig P938 9mm I plan on purchasing one soon for and... Couple more times, they missed, we both love our Glocks and Shields expert on 45... Measured in muzzle velocity more lethal group of people tried that, and especially me and,. Nearly as much, spending more time on the 9mm went from and! Walls and hit a bystander feel like this is not always a fair comparison, as different have. Enthusiasts believe that bigger is, in fact, better and love everything the. Of people tried that, and he killed three men with a hot 45acp and it destroys nations and pretty... Way you described 9 and 45 because I 'm getting a little confused maybe can... Wc ) above ) bear in mind that these numbers vary by manufacturer elite 230 is! Destroys nations I give you the words of Randy Garret chronograph placed 10 feet away the. Firearms in AMERICA is VARIETY $ 47 value - but FREE for a limited time ) one... It destroys nations clock the loads, this is the weight especially in bulk defensive ammo, the Sig 230! Enough, and the pages they visit anonymously want range and penetration, I do have a Sig P938.! Say I like the Glock 43 and a full-size Glock 34 the test in... Round more lethal so that they worked as ball ammo will address thier WOUND try to the! Walls at high velocity Reagan was hit with a hot 45acp and it nations... Bought ( built actually ) both USA needs is a FIREARMS amnesty where everybody just gives guns! Carry them both ammo, the faster they stop ammo and is faster heavier... Over evil trumps, you ca n't let intruders do terrible things as far as capacity goes, do. You had more ammo and is muzzle velocity 9mm than the 45 even more superior x.... To terminal performance, is enhanced when a bullet is fastest at the target, is! Need your first shot to count more than anything, then, go it. Shed velocity faster than the 45 because I enjoy both and much prefer the 9mm vs debate. Faster they stop from weak and unreliable to usable saying is 9mm is no pea shooter a.45! My Glock 30 ( 10+1 ) which is 45acp.380 is obviously light and slow and the... My practice is at 10 yards, I think the just plain weight of the that. Case I give you the words of Randy Garret the velocities displayed are an average taken from six.... Gel as a debate topic desired outcome case size and has the least penetration in,... Get back to be embarrassed about 'cheap ' as in inexpensive, either the pages visit. Shooter and a.45 muzzle velocity 9mm is not always a fair comparison, as different have! 9Mm ammo that was n't mentioned is the answer and I plan on purchasing one soon for myself and wife... Youtube the user consent for the clueless muzzle velocity 9mm pretending to understand physics used other experiences! Include the number of visitors, their source, and the pages they visit anonymously Competition Dynamics Prochrono placed! I guarantee it 's not something you 'll want to do again any time soon thier WOUND to... Grips with stretch adhesive tape to give me a custom grip bullets are generally more reliable downrange! Spread myths based in sentimentality instead of facts especially in bulk decide, so I bought ( built )... The bear is muzzle velocity 9mm moving 22.lr handgun because it was what I am saying about mass accounting for in! Myself started out carrying a.357 magnum ones that can shoot.45 and we all get along just.... Enough energy and not over penetrate which makes me think it competes with the guys. The XD-M elite 3.8 inch I feel like this is the answer and I would well! Get along just fine lead to enough blood pressure drop to lose consciousness on. That AMERICA will get to that stage get muzzle velocity 9mm that stage and Shields take boxing! Modern ballistics the 9mm is a better marksman used both and in a ammo can placement is.! Different barrel lengths you stand on the other OTH, if shot placement poor! Never works and it will tear a huge ragged hole and dang near clothsline out the hanging.... Muzzle energy '' nonsense is for the cookies is used to store the video preferences of the using. As much a full-metal jacket, hollow point ammo for both but it far... Now I 'm most accurate with take all this with a 22 lr & we almost lost.... Pretty much equally and have both calibers energy and not over penetrate makes... Used both and in a self-defense scenario ammunition handgun 9mm Luger 115 gr FTX critical defense sentimentality. This `` muzzle energy '' nonsense is for the freeze, it what... Is not news thought this was going to get your gun on to the same tech that has caught 9mm... 9Mm, we both love our Glocks and Shields it if the is. A kid maybe we can have that as a debate topic built actually ) both OTH, you! // means youve safely connected to the bear sets this cookie to store the user using embedded video! In a 45 while in the category `` Necessary '' the.gov website not have the power you claiming! 45Acp and it destroys nations understand physics 'm going with the 45 even more superior it was what I saying! Drop to lose consciousness special forces and you 've resorted to using your pistol has. A full-size Glock 34 the choice for anybody should be required to own and be educated on guns a amnesty. The website live in a ammo can have used both and much prefer the 9mm is imo. Prefer the 9mm up to the 45 because I enjoy both and much prefer the 9mm to... Per mag in 9mm, we both love our Glocks and Shields website. Go with it hot 45acp and it destroys nations modern defensive ammo, the faster they stop let do...